Clinton to Burma (Myanmar)

I would say it is a scoping trip. The U.S. is not sure of the nature of the change taking place in Burma.

Cold War where the US the Soviet are competing with each other in large part in arms race.

Post Cold War where the US and China are competing with each other for energy.
 

   

19 Thanksgiving Quotes By Comedians



19 Thanksgiving Quotes By Comedians

11/23/11

Jon Stewart: "I celebrated Thanksgiving in an old-fashioned way. I invited everyone in my neighborhood to my house, we had an enormous feast, and then I killed them and took their land."

Johnny Carson: "Thanksgiving is an emotional holiday. People travel thousands of miles to be with people they only see once a year. And then discover once a year is way too often."

David Letterman
Top Ten Signs You Had A Bad Thanksgiving
10."You ran out of booze by 11 a.m."
9."Most frequently used word at dinner: Heimlich"
8."Meal was leftovers from last Thanksgiving"
7."Thanks to new electric knife, kids fought over wishbone and your severed thumb"
6."The 'turkey' was wearing a dog collar"
5."Spent day in Times Square waiting for the giant turkey to drop"
4."Woke up from tryptophan-induced sleep to find yourself naked in the driveway"
3."When dinner came out, so did your son"
2."Laura and the twins lock you out"
1."Your turkey dinner was the only breast you've touched all year"

Obama's aversion to A.C.


Reggie Love Reveals Obama's Annoying Habit
 11/22/11 09:40 AM

==
Do- I found one thing in common b/w me and Obama
==

President Obama's body man and basketball buddy Reggie Love announced earlier this month that he is leaving his job to go to business school, and now he is talking about his time inside the White House. In an interview with ABC News to air Tuesday night at 6:30 ET, Love says he spent so much time by the president's side that he witnessed many personal moments.

When pressed to describe the president's annoying habits, Love tells ABC that Obama's aversion to air conditioning made some of their long car rides together uncomfortable.

"The thing that used to kill me is that the guy loves to ride around with the AC off in the summertime," Love says. "And I get hot. I start sweating. And I'm like, it's 80 degrees in this car. I'm going to pass out."

Mark 8:22


8:22And they come unto Bethsaida. And they bring to him a blind man, and beseech him to touch him. 8:23And he took hold of the blind man by the hand, and brought him out of the village; and when he had spit on his eyes, and laid his hands upon him, he asked him, Seest thou aught? 8:24And he looked up, and said, I see men; for I behold them as trees, walking. 8:25Then again he laid his hands upon his eyes; and he looked stedfastly, and was restored, and saw all things clearly. 8:26And he sent him away to his home, saying, Do not even enter into the village. 8:27And Jesus went forth, and his disciples, into the villages of Caesarea Philippi: and on the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Who do men say that I am? 8:28And they told him, saying, John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but others, One of the prophets. 8:29And he asked them, But who say ye that I am? Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. 8:30And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. 8:31And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders, and the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.8:32And he spake the saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. 8:33But he turning about, and seeing his disciples, rebuked Peter, and saith, Get thee behind me, Satan; for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men. 8:34And he called unto him the multitude with his disciples, and said unto them, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 8:35For whosoever would save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's shall save it. 8:36For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? 8:37For what should a man give in exchange for his life? 8:38For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man also shall be ashamed of him, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.


It will take time to internalize truth. Do not preach until you go through the process, which is accompanied by suffering where you will see what will fall off of yourself and remain within--purify.

It was good to see the members of old community group. 



"Congress should have cut off all food aid to North Korea," says Royce


COMMITTEE NEWS
Thursday, November 17, 2011

North Korea Food Aid Restrictions on Path to Become Law; "Congress should have cut off all food aid to North Korea," says Royce

WASHINGTON, DC -- Later today, the Agriculture Appropriations conference report is scheduled to be considered by the House of Representatives. The conference report represents the text agreed upon by the House and Senate, to be sent to the President for signature to become law. The final text of the bill prohibits food aid to countries that do not provide adequate monitoring and which divert food for inappropriate purposes. In recent months, the Obama Administration has actively considered a request to renew food aid to North Korea. The U.S. has provided about $800 million in food aid to this nuclear rogue since 1996, much misused.

Rep. Ed Royce (R-CA), Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Terrorism, Nonproliferation, and Trade, who successfully offered an amendment in the House that prohibits food aid to North Korea, released the following statement prior to the bill’s consideration:

"While far from the ideal of no food aid, this provision does send an important message to the Obama Administration that there is great skepticism about turning on the aid spigot to North Korea," said Royce. "It's too bad that Senate Democrats didn't understand the way food aid bolsters the North Korean regime. But this provision has the potential to end aid down the road."

"The North Korean people are suffering under this barbaric regime. But food aid that is siphoned off by the regime and the military doesn’t help them. I can’t think of any agreement North Korean hasn't cheated on. We're naive to think we can outfox them on aid distribution. North Korean defectors have said that providing food aid is the same as aiding its nuclear program.

"I think it is fair to say that my language, which has been pending for months, has prevented some bad decisions by the Obama Administration by forcing an examination of its food aid plans. If aid is given, despite all the problems, we'll be watching to point out monitoring shortcomings in accordance with the new law," concluded Royce. 

Last year, in his final report to the U.N. General Assembly, the Special Rapporteur on human rights in North Korea noted:

North Korea’s "national resources are distorted in favor of militarization and the ruling elite. This is most evident in regard to the expenditure of the nuclearization process, a development castigated by the international community… This mis-expenditure has not only depleted the national budget, which should have been spent on the welfare of the population, but it has also compromised international peace and security." The rapporteur also noted that North Korea has an entrenched "military first" policy.

Earlier this week, the Washington Post reported that North Korea continues to make "rapid progress" on its nuclear program

the failure of Supercommittee is good? vs. privacy is the only hope of succeeding


Failure Is Good By PAUL KRUGMAN

November 17, 2011

It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s a complete turkey! It’s the supercommittee!

By next Wednesday, the so-called supercommittee, a bipartisan group of legislators, is supposed to reach an agreement on how to reduce future deficits. Barring an evil miracle — I’ll explain the evil part later — the committee will fail to meet that deadline.

If this news surprises you, you haven’t been paying attention. If it depresses you, cheer up: In this case, failure is good.

Why was the supercommittee doomed to fail? Mainly because the gulf between our two major political parties is so wide. Republicans and Democrats don’t just have different priorities; they live in different intellectual and moral universes.

intellectual universetax break (for corporate jets – moral aspect) + government spending
In Democrat-world, up is up and down is down. Raising taxes increases revenue, and cutting spending while the economy is still depressed reduces employment. But in Republican-world, down is up. The way to increase revenue is to cut taxes on corporations and the wealthy, and slashing government spending is a job-creation strategy. Try getting a leading Republican to admit that the Bush tax cuts increased the deficit or that sharp cuts in government spending (except on the military) would hurt the economic recovery.

moral universe social safety net
Moreover, the parties have sharply different views of what constitutes economic justice.

Democrats see social insurance programs, from Social Security to food stamps, as serving the moral imperative of providing basic security to our fellow citizens and helping those in need.

Republicans have a totally different view. They may soft-pedal that view in public — in last year’s elections, they even managed to pose as defenders of Medicare — but, in private, they view the welfare state as immoral, a matter of forcing citizens at gunpoint to hand their money over to other people. By creating Social Security, declared Rick Perry in his book “Fed Up!”, F.D.R. was “violently tossing aside any respect for our founding principles.” Does anyone doubt that he was speaking for many in his party?

paraphrase of
So the supercommittee brought together legislators who disagree completely both about how the world works (intellectual) and about the proper role of government. (moral) Why did anyone think this would work?

failure of the news media to discern truth from fact give rise to externality in terms of political price   
Well, maybe the idea was that the parties would compromise out of fear that there would be a political price for seeming intransigent. But this could only happen (only) if the news media were willing to point out who is really refusing to compromise. And they aren’t. If and when the supercommittee fails, virtually all news reports will be he-said, she-said, quoting Democrats who blame Republicans and vice versa without ever explaining the truth.

“centrist” pundits in addition to the news media
Oh, and let me give a special shout-out to “centrist” pundits who won’t admit that President Obama has already given them what they want. The dialogue seems to go like this. Pundit: “Why won’t the president come out for a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes?” Mr. Obama: “I support a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes.” Pundit: “Why won’t the president come out for a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes?”

“centrist” who are confused b/w inability to be critical and impartiality    
You see, admitting that one side is willing to make concessions, while the other isn’t, would tarnish one’s centrist credentials. And the result is that the G.O.P. pays no price for refusing to give an inch.

So the supercommittee will fail — and that’s good.

Deficit resulted from tax cuts and unfunded wars
Any deal reached now would improve neither deficit nor economic slump (unemployment)
For one thing, history tells us that the Republican Party would renege on its side of any deal as soon as it got the chance. Remember, the U.S. fiscal outlook was pretty good in 2000, but, as soon as Republicans gained control of the White House, they squandered the surplus on tax cuts and unfunded wars. So any deal reached now would, in practice, be nothing more than a deal to slash Social Security and Medicare, with no lasting improvement in the deficit.

Also, any deal reached now would almost surely end up worsening the economic slump. Slashing spending while the economy is depressed destroys jobs, and it’s probably even counterproductive in terms of deficit reduction, since it leads to lower revenue both now and in the future. And current projections, like those of the Federal Reserve, suggest that the economy will remain depressed at least through 2014. Better to have no deal than a deal that imposes spending cuts in the next few years.

But don’t we eventually have to match spending and revenue? Yes, we do. But the decision about how to do that isn’t about accounting. It’s about fundamental values — and it’s a decision that should be made by voters, not by some committee that allegedly transcends the partisan divide.

Eventually, one side or the other of that divide will get the kind of popular mandate it needs to resolve our long-run budget issues. Until then, attempts to strike a Grand Bargain are fundamentally destructive. If the supercommittee fails, as expected, it will be time to celebrate.

====
====
=====
NPR, Talk Of The Nation,  November 1, 2011 Tuesday

Private Meetings And Back-Room Deals Can Pay Off
ANCHORS: Neal Conan, GUESTS: Jordan Tama

==
DO – summary - back room deal (privacy) gives a leeway for those at the end of ideological spectrum to move away from the orthodox
It does not necessarily mean a lack of transparency, because whatever they come up with will be judged on  
==

In November - it is November now, and the clock is ticking toward the deadline for the congressional supercommittee, the bipartisan group trying to find ways to reduce the budget deficit over the next 10 years by $1.5 trillion. The supercommittee holds most of its meetings behind closed doors, prompting some to denounce secret deliberations as undemocratic. In a recent op-ed in The New York Times, Jordan Tama defended the back-room deal.  Call us with your arguments for transparency or for secrecy or privacy.

Give us an example, too, if you would. 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org You can join the conversation at our website. Go to npr.org. Click on TALK OF THE NATION. You'll find a link to the op-ed there. Jordan Tama is an assistant professor of international relations at the American University and joins us here in Studio 3A. Nice to have you with us.

And one example you cite in your piece is the deal that led to the Social Security compromise back in 1983.

That's right. That was a compromise. That was engineered by the Greenspan Commission chaired by Alan Greenspan. Before he was...

Then a mere consultant...

Right. Not quite as famous at that time but already famous for his economic expertise. And this was created in 1981 by the Reagan administration, at a time when Social Security is making - facing a major financing shortfall. And...

What was the advantage of privacy, lack of transparency, if you will?

Well, the advantage was that the key problem was for Republicans and Democrats to actually agree on a solution, and the challenge was not that dissimilar to the challenge we're facing now because the problem really came down to the balance between tax increases and benefit cuts. And Democrats, as now, favored tax increases more than benefit cuts and Republicans the opposite.

And the commission was very valuable because it took a subgroup of members of Congress as well as some prominent private citizens and enabled them to engage in very intensive private deliberations. And they reached some very important breakthroughs. First, they agreed on how much the shortfall actually was, which was something that Republicans and Democrats couldn't even agree on at first. And then they agreed, ultimately, on how to address the shortfall through a combination of benefit cuts and tax increases.

It's interesting. Since you wrote your piece, there has been another public session, a rare public session of the congressional supercommittee. And Democrats came out during the public session and said, wait a minute, here's our proposal. Increase taxes by this amount and we'll cut that amount from Medicare.

Right. And that's part of the bargaining process, I think. They're laying out a proposal that would include large tax increases, and it's very unlikely Republicans will agree to those. But the Democrats also want to show that they are making a serious offer and taking this process very seriously. And one thing that is at work here is that neither party wants to be blamed for a failure to reach agreement. So the Republicans, so far, have not made any public offers that would include significant tax increases. But it may not be out of the question that privately that's being discussed.

So it might be, as it was during these so-called grand bargain discussions between the speaker of the House, John Boehner, and President Obama at one point.  But those discussions became public and quickly evaporated.

Right. Exactly. And that's really why privacy is so important, because the real issue here is that elected officials face intense political pressures. And when they speak publicly, whether it's at a public hearing or in any other public setting, it's very hard for them to move away from their party orthodoxy. And so it's impossible for Republicans in public to say that they're for tax increases and for Democrats to talk about cutting entitlement programs, generally.

And you say, in fact, those calling for transparency for public meetings on these issues are, in fact, afraid of success?

I think that's right. The people who are criticizing this congressional supercommittee are generally people who are on the liberal or conservative end of the spectrum who don't want to see a kind of centrist grand bargain. And if this committee is to succeed, it would only succeed by coming out with something that's somewhere in the middle.

I believe every Republican member of the supercommittee is a signatory to the no tax pledge. And that's why I'm not optimistic about this committee succeeding.  Even if it is in private.

Even if - right. Basically, my view on this is that the privacy of these negotiations are the committee's only hope of succeeding. But even so, it's a long shot that it will succeed because the partisan pressures, the polarization of Congress is so intense now.

It's just much harder now than it was in 1983 when the Greenspan Commission was operating for Republicans and Democrats to reach agreement on these big issues of the budget, taxes, spending.

Do you ever watch C-SPAN? 
Yeah, and kind of a joke actually. I don't think most of what these politicians say for the camera really means anything as far as them talking to each other. They talked passed each other. They posture for the camera. But, you know, what other choice do we have? You know, deliberations can be as simple as two people drinking coffee together. You know, you don't have to have a TV camera there for it to be a transparent government. What they come up with, what they decide, they can be judged on. And come election time, hopefully, they will be. But as far as making all this stuff public, I mean, you don't see like war treaty resolution deliberations in public either because people have to make tough decisions. They're not going to make those tough decisions with a TV camera over their shoulder.

Well, it's interesting you mentioned that. There was a famous debate before the first Persian Gulf War in the House of Representatives, and, indeed, the United States Senate, where people did vote on a war resolution. And the debate was held entirely in public, and people then did cast their vote. It did pass but not by a lot. And I wonder, Jordan Tama, those kinds of decisions are very, very difficult, as you say. And do you think that the posturing that the people, well, undoubtedly commit to - given the seriousness of a situation like that, war and peace, sometimes they rise above that.

People do rise above it. I think, in this case, it's important to keep in mind that, ultimately, there would be still a very public debate if this committee's - if this committee does reach agreement on proposals (unintelligible)...

Right. They would get voted on in Congress publicly and that would be an extremely public debate that would, you know, be the thing that everybody in the country is talking about at that time. So that's important to keep in mind. Really, all that's happening here is deliberations preceding a vote are happening in private, and that's something that happens on all issues, all the time. As the caller just mentioned, the government does deliberate over everything privately regularly.

It's never easy to defend secrecy in any context because transparency is something that just seems to be inherently good, and people assume that transparency is always to the good. And so I'm making, I think, a bit of a counterintuitive argument there.

But the reason why I made that argument is because I've done a lot of research on blue ribbon commissions, special commissions that are set up to look at all kinds of issues and...

Normally described as a place where controversies go to die.

Exactly. Right. The conventional wisdom is that these commissions are a waste of time, that no one pays attention to them. And what I found in looking at a lot of commissions, especially ones that have dealt with national security and foreign policy issues like the 9/11 Commission, is that far more than people realize, they often are the key institution that forges bipartisan consensus because of the fact that on these commissions, there's always a mix of Republicans and Democrats, and they spend a lot of time together, talking privately, deliberating privately. They actually get to know each other, sometimes become friends.

You said you're not terribly optimistic, though, even given privacy.

Right. I'm not terribly optimistic because of a couple of factors. One, the fact that, as I mentioned, all the people on this committee are current members of Congress. And what I found in my research, which I've written up in a book called "Terrorism and National Security Reform," is that independent commissions tend to be more capable of actually forging bipartisan consensus because of the fact that once people are out of government, people are much more likely to be able to compromise.

(Do- Obama to Bill Clinton “I envy you, once you out of Washington, you deal with reasonable person)  

I interviewed one person, James Baker, who had been the chair of a number of commissions, former secretary of state, and he said it helps to have has-beens on commissions because they have no political axe to grind, which I think captures that well.

And no political future, but for commissions, that can be good. But the other factor is just the intense polarization of our political environment today. It makes it very hard for the committee to succeed.

You could find a link to Jordan Tama's New York Times piece, "In Defense of the Back-Room Deal," 

spending habits of the leaders at the Summit of the G20 in Cannes

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-11-11/friday-news-roundup-hour-2/transcript

===
DO - though Chinese leader is not "elected" by people ...   
====

I think there's an interesting anecdote that I would like to share with our listeners about the spending habits in Europe and this idea or this trend, as David points out, to spend more than you have. 
 
If you look at the Summit of the G20 in Cannes last week when all the leaders of the G20 gathered, it's very interesting to look at how much they spent on their hotel suites. President Sarkozy of France, President Obama and Prime Minister Berlusconi spent around 35 to $29,000 on their hotel suite. The Chinese spent 11,000. The British spent 1900.

I think it says a lot about the approach to spending. And it's true that austerity measures aren't necessarily the answer to everything, but spending beyond your means is certainly not the answer either.

Did that include room service or...


Cyberspace, and International Law


China, Russia and Other Countries Submit the Document of International Code of Conduct for Information Security to the United Nations
2011/09/13

The White House
Office of the Vice President, November 01, 2011
VP's Remarks to London Cyberspace Conference

how to achieve both security and openness in cyberspace

Joe Biden, Cyberspace, and International Law
by Duncan Hollis , November 1st, 2011

The Russian/Chinese proposal (co-authored with Uzbekistan and Tajikistan) is widely undestood as part of an effort to (1) move Internet governance away from the existing US-dominated public-private partnership to the ITU and (2) develop a global treaty on cybersecurity that will reinforce national sovereignty over all behavior in cyberspace (including speech and communication deemed de-stabilizing as much if not more than the cyberattacks or cyberespionage). 

Inside Executive Branch Policy Discussions on Drone Strikes


U.S. Tightens Drone Rules
NOVEMBER 4, 2011, By ADAM ENTOUS, SIOBHAN GORMAN and JULIAN E. BARNES

CIA brass want a free hand vs. DoD and State Dept. demands more-selective strikes out of concern about the fragile US relationship with Pakistan ...  
The Central Intelligence Agency has made a series of secret concessions in its drone campaign after military and diplomatic officials complained large strikes were damaging the fragile U.S. relationship with Pakistan.

The covert drones are credited with killing hundreds of suspected militants, and few U.S. officials have publicly criticized the campaign, or its rapid expansion under President Barack Obama. Behind the scenes, however, many key U.S. military and State Department officials demanded more-selective strikes. That pitted them against CIA brass who want a free hand to pursue suspected militants.

White House intervenes and, in essence, affirmed its support for CIA with some of CIA’s concession  
The disputes over drones became so protracted that the White House launched a review over the summer, in which Mr. Obama intervened.

The review ultimately affirmed support for the underlying CIA program. But a senior official said: "The bar has been raised. Inside CIA, there is a recognition you need to be damn sure it's worth it."

The State Dept. greater sway ; Pakistani advance notice  
Among the changes: The State Department won greater sway in strike decisions; Pakistani leaders got advance notice about more operations; and the CIA agreed to suspend operations when Pakistani officials visit the U.S.

The Pakistan drone debate already seems to be influencing thinking about the U.S. use of drones elsewhere in the world. In Yemen, the CIA used the pilotless aircraft in September to kill American-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, a suspected terrorist. But the White House has for now barred the CIA from attacking large groups of unidentified lower-level militants there.

The CIA concessions were detailed by high-level officials in a series of interviews with The Wall Street Journal. But in a measure of the discord, administration officials have different interpretations about the outcome of the White House review. While some cast the concessions as a "new phase" in which the CIA would weigh diplomacy more heavily in its activities, (vs) others said the impact was minimal and that the bar for vetting targets has been consistently high.

"Even if there are added considerations, the program—which still has strong support in Washington—remains as aggressive as ever," said a U.S. official.

A glance at drone operations   
Last year, Mr. Obama expanded the CIA program to 14 drone "orbits." Each orbit usually includes three drones, sufficient to provide constant surveillance over tribal areas of Pakistan. The CIA's fleet of drones includes Predators and larger Reapers. The drones carry Hellfire missiles and sometimes bigger bombs, can soar to an altitude of 50,000 feet and reach cruise speeds of up to 230 miles per hour.

The drone program over the past decade has moved from a technological oddity to a key element of U.S. national-security policy. The campaign has killed more than 1,500 suspected militants on Pakistani soil since Mr. Obama took office in 2009, according to government officials.

the diplomatic costs of air strikes
To some degree, the program has become a victim of its own success. Critics question whether aggressive tactics are necessary following the eradication of senior al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan, including Osama bin Laden, killed in a helicopter raid by Navy Seals in May after drone and satellite surveillance of the compound where he was living.

Many officials at the Pentagon and State Department privately argued the CIA pays too little attention to the diplomatic costs of air strikes that kill large groups of low-level fighters. Such strikes inflame Pakistani public opinion. Observers point to the rising power in Pakistan of political figures like Imran Khan, who held large rallies to protest the drones and could challenge the current government.

All this comes at a time when the State Department is trying to enlist Pakistan's help in advancing peace talks with the Taliban, a key element of a White House drive to end the war in neighboring Afghanistan. Top officials of the (i) CIA, (ii) Pentagon, (iii) State Department and (iv) National Security Council have been pulled into the debate. Among those voicing concerns was Gen. David Petraeus, who commanded the war in Afghanistan before becoming CIA director in September. A senior intelligence official said Gen. Petraeus voiced "caution against strikes on large groups of fighters."

drone operations still remains a key element despite internal dispute
Changing the handling of the drone program doesn't mean the CIA is pulling back. The agency in recent weeks has intensified strikes in Pakistan focusing on the militant Haqqani network, a group believed to be behind a series of attacks in Afghanistan. The Pentagon and State Department have backed those strikes as serving U.S. interests.

why Pakistani public outraged
The debate in Washington was fueled by a particularly deadly drone strike on March 17. It came at a low point in U.S.-Pakistani relations, just a day after Pakistan agreed after weeks of U.S. pressure to release a CIA contractor who had killed two Pakistanis.

Infuriated Pakistani leaders put the death toll from the drone strike at more than 40, including innocent civilians. American officials say about 20 were killed, all militants.

"signature" strike vs. "personality" strike
The March 17 attack was a "signature" strike, one of two types used by the CIA, and the most controversial within the administration. Signature strikes target groups of men believed to be militants associated with terrorist groups, but whose identities aren't always known. The bulk of CIA's drone strikes are signature strikes.

The second type of drone strike, known as a "personality" strike, targets known terrorist leaders and has faced less internal scrutiny.

Signature strike and Pakistani permission
Signature strikes were first used under former President George W. Bush. His administration began arming unmanned aircraft to hunt al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks. As al Qaeda militants fled to Pakistan, the CIA began a secret drone program there, with quiet backing from Islamabad.

For the first years, U.S. officials used drones only to target known, top terror suspects. The drone strikes quickly became unpopular with the Pakistani public. In 2008, when Pakistani leaders bowed to public pressure and began to block U.S. requests for strikes, President Bush authorized a major expansion, allowing the CIA to conduct strikes, including signature strikes, without Pakistani permission.

Initially, the CIA was skeptical of the value of expending resources on lower-level operatives through signature strikes, a former senior intelligence official said. Military officials, however, favored the idea. The debate eventually would lead to the CIA and the military reversing their initial positions.

Obama gives CIA freehand  
Mr. Obama was an early convert to drones. The CIA has had freedom to decide who to target and when to strike. The White House usually is notified immediately after signature strikes take place, not beforehand, a senior U.S. official said.

The program had some early skeptics, but their concerns gained little traction. Dennis Blair, Mr. Obama's first director of national intelligence, recommended that the CIA measure the program's effectiveness beyond numbers of dead militants, U.S. officials said. It didn't happen.

The CIA and the State Department had been at odds for months over the use of drones. Tensions flared with the arrival in Islamabad late last year of a new ambassador, Cameron Munter, who advocated more judicious use of signature strikes, senior officials said.

On at least two occasions, Leon Panetta, then the CIA director, ignored Mr. Munter's objections to planned strikes, a senior official said. One came just hours after Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, visited Islamabad.

Pentagon began to question the CIA’s approach  
State Department diplomats weren't alone in their concerns. Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and other military leaders, who initially favored more aggressive CIA methods, began to question that approach.

Watershed event-- March 17 strike, spark dispute
The debate erupted after the March 17 strike, when National Security Advisor Tom Donilon and others at the White House, taken aback by the number of casualties and Pakistan's sharp reaction, questioned whether the CIA should for large groups, at times, hold its fire. Officials asked what precautions were being taken to aim at highly valued targets, rather than foot soldiers.

"Donilon and others said, 'O.K., I got it; it's war and it's confusing. Are we doing everything we can to make sure we are focused on the target sets we want?'" said a participant in the discussions. "You can kill these foot soldiers all day, every day and you wouldn't change the course of the war."

A senior Obama administration official declined to comment on Mr. Donilon's closed-door discussions but said that he wasn't second-guessing the CIA's targeting methodology and pointed to his long-standing support for the program. The official said the White House wanted to use the drone program smartly to pick off al Qaeda leaders and the Haqqanis. "It's about keeping our eyes on the ball," the official said.

In the spring, military leaders increasingly found themselves on the phone with Mr. Panetta and his deputy urging restraint in drone attacks, particularly during periods when the U.S. was engaging in high-level diplomatic exchanges with Pakistan. "Whenever they got a shot [for a drone attack], they just took it, regardless of what else was happening in the world," a senior official said.

The first concession of the CIA
Mr. Panetta made his first concession in an April meeting with his Pakistani counterpart. He told Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha that the U.S. would tell the Pakistanis ahead of time about strikes expected to kill more than 20 militants, officials said.

Internal debate intensified after the killing of OBL (over signature strike)
The debate over the future of the drone program intensified after the death of Osama bin Laden the next month. Pakistani leaders were embarrassed that the U.S. carried out the operation in their country, undetected. They demanded an end to the signature drone strikes.

Mr. Donilon, the National Security Advisor, launched a broad review of Pakistan policy, including the drone program. Officials said the internal debate that ensued was the most serious since the signature strikes were expanded in 2008.

(look at what the signature strike has done thus far) CIA officials defended the signature strikes by saying they frequently netted top terrorists, not just foot soldiers. Twice as many wanted terrorists have been killed in signature strikes than in personality strikes, a U.S. counterterrorism official said.
  Adm. Mullen argued that the CIA needed to be more selective. Then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates feared that the Pakistanis, if pushed too hard, would block the flow of supplies to troops in Afghanistan, officials said.

For Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who has supported the CIA's strikes in the vast majority of cases, the biggest focus has been to make sure political ramifications are properly assessed to avoid a situation where the political opposition in Pakistan becomes so great that the country's current or future leaders decide to bar the drones outright.

A lack of verifiable information
Independent information about who the CIA kills in signature strikes in Pakistan is scarce. The agency tells U.S. and Pakistani officials that there have been very few civilian deaths—only 60 over the years. But some senior officials in both governments privately say they are skeptical that civilian deaths have been that low.

Broader question on wisdom of drone operation
Some top officials in the White House meetings this summer argued for a broader reassessment. "The question is, 'Is it even worth doing now? We've got the key leadership in al Qaeda, what is it that we're there for now?" one of the officials recalled some advisers asking.

The White House review culminated in a Situation Room meeting with Mr. Obama in June in which he reaffirmed support for the program.

current state around drone operations   
But changes were made. Mr. Obama instituted an appeals procedure to give the State Department more of a voice in deciding when and if to strike. If the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan objected to a strike, for example, the CIA director or his deputy would first try to talk through their differences with the ambassador. If the conflict was unresolved, the secretary of state would appeal directly to the CIA director. If they couldn't reach agreement, however, the CIA director retained the final say.

Since the changes were made, officials say internal tensions over the strikes have eased and agencies were acting more in concert with each other.

Though Mr. Petraeus voiced a preference for smaller drone strikes, officials said the agency has the leeway to carry out large-scale strikes and hasn't been formally directed to go after only higher-value targets and avoid foot soldiers. Since Mr. Petraeus's arrival at CIA, some strikes on larger groups have taken place, the senior intelligence official said.

To reduce the number of CIA strikes on Pakistani soil, the military moved more of its own drones into position on the Afghan side of the border with Pakistan, according to participants in the discussions. That makes it easier for the CIA to "hand off" suspected militants to the U.S. military once they cross into Afghanistan, rather than strike them on Pakistani soil, U.S. officials said.

U.S.-Pakistani relations remain troubled, but Islamabad recently expanded intelligence cooperation and has toned down its opposition to the drone strikes, both in public and private, officials said. Pakistani officials had sought advance notice, and greater say, over CIA strikes so they could try to mitigate the public backlash.

"It's not like they took the car keys away from the CIA," a senior official said. "There are just more people in the car."

—Jay Solomon contributed to this article


Inside Executive Branch Policy Discussions on Drone Strikes
by Kenneth Anderson  , November 4th, 2011

Among other things, the article follows arguments, raised in earlier news stories .. over the weight to be given the Pakistan government’s anger over the strikes — and, more exactly, not being told in advance or being asked permission for attacking targets.  This was primarily a concern raised by the State Department, and the then-new US ambassador, Cameron Munter.  One difficulty, noted in earlier articles, was that advance warning to Pakistan sometimes resulted in obvious leaks to the targets.  But to judge by today’s piece, the permissions process has been altered to give more weight to State’s concerns  

It is noteworthy that there appears to be no sense anywhere in the US government that there is a legal issue with the CIA conducting the strikes, despite the on-going debate among academics and others outside of the US government.

The personality strikes are at the core of the US’s counterterrorism program, whereas the signature strikes are much more part of the counterinsurgency campaign — attacking safe havens, fighters who would otherwise wind up in Afghanistan, etc. 
(A distinct legal debate, as Charlie Savage has reported in the Times, took place over the legal authority for engaging in signature strikes in places outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan’s border regions, such as Yemen, but it appear to have been resolved at this point in favor of a legal view that such strikes are permitted, but as a policy matter do not make sense for the United States at this point.)

(DO- counter-terrorism, turning more toward preventing direct attack on the US ; counter-insurgency, attacking safe haven)

Much of the policy debate within the administration seems to have revolved around the extent of signature strikes which, by their nature, attack a group of people who the US has identified as fighters, rather than individual as in a targeted killing.  Indeed, this illustrates the important point that as drone uses ramify, targeted killing is only one such use (and targeted killing, too, might be carried out with a human team; targeted killing and drone warfare only partly overlap).